The High Value Man Conversation
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Hosted By:
Erin Alejandrino & Josh Lashua
The High Value Man Conversation
The HVMC: s3 ep5: The Communication Episode
Just remember...
Sent does NOT mean received.
Have you ever wondered why some conversations leave you feeling uplifted, while others drive a wedge straight through your relationships?
Great communication comes down to much more than the words you say -- tune to improve you communication.
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Speaker 2:Stop having they run you. One day Get better.
Speaker 1:A better city, community, state and the world. The question is if not you, then who? Crazy statistic, josh 67% of marriages ended for this primary reason Communication, yeah, lack of it. Lack of it, and it's not money, it's not sex. Those are also statistics that are very high, but 67.5% of marriages ended primarily due to communication problem. Communications ultimately run into your, your connection, which affects sex, and it runs into your ability to manage your finances. Talk about things that are important and not important and to prioritize, but communication is the thread that runs through every single relationship, yeah unity in connection overall.
Speaker 2:If it's great, good. If it's not, it has everything to do with your communication. If you're not in unity, if you're not in agreement on things again, sex, finance, all these other issues are born or bred out of those. It's simple, because either we didn't learn how or we thought we were communicating and we didn't. I love that. George Mararoshall says the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it's taking place. I love that the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it's taking place and that 67.5% of failed marriages would agree with that. I agree.
Speaker 1:It's interesting too. I forget where I heard this I think actually Garrett mentioned this on a podcast but sent does not mean received. So just because you send a communication, you say something, you send a text message, you send a voice shot, you share something out of meeting or you share something with your spouse, does not mean it's received, because there's two sides of the communication and there's an old dynamic in regards to how we receive communication that we're going to be breaking down in this episode. Yeah, let's do it, I like it.
Speaker 2:So I love that we touched on that, that statistic one. It's heart-wrenching to think that somewhere between half and three-quarters of all marriages don't make it because of communication In general, especially in the ashram today here and we have, you know, most people have cell phones. We live in a very prominent area of the world between social media, cell phones, email, blogs, etc. We would think that we communicate really well, I think it's actually worse.
Speaker 1:I think we communicate worse now than we ever have because there's no, there's less physical contact. There's less, there's less care for the words that we're using. There used to be a time when we would write letters to those that we cared about and actually would choose every word we could have, just like randomly spout something off, and so there's there's a lot less intentionality now and a lot less emotional intelligence because we were isolated. I think that was probably the biggest destructive point during COVID is that we spent so much time alone and isolated before I had to communicate Like people showing up on Zoom calls, just not interacting with people, because there wasn't that closeness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very true and it's even. You know, zoom gets best, even though it was the midst of that season, but it's really difficult to be connected with anybody via a screen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's, there's another stat too, that you put in that we're talking about beforehand, that 55% of communication is body language. So if you're texting or if you're on Zoom, you're missing out on a lot of the primary ways that we perceive information. And there's two sides of communication. Right, there's there's the sender and there's the receiver. But if you can't interpret the body language, that's half of your communication. Then we have 45% is the tone, how you're saying it. Um, the, and tone is everything, especially in your dynamic of your romantic relationship, is how you say something or how you perceive something is said that says more than what is actually said, and then just Before you go into words real quick.
Speaker 2:Um, I want to steal this as a a darlinism. So my mother in love, darling Uncle Bach, said this um, at a very young age to Brittany and we've carried throughout our marriage with tone in general is I can serve you, just think of this. My, my favorite steak is like a, a bone in rib eye, served medium rare, just the way I like it, from a very specific restaurant. So that's my intent to say. That's that steak to give is what I intend to give you. Words wise, I want you to receive it. I can deliver that to you on a bone platter beautifully, let you would get it, they're restaurant. Or on a trash can lid. Yeah, same steak made by the same cook in the same kitchen. But I have two ways delivering it to you. Very good presentation, that is tone, yeah, so we can have an intent to say something, to deliver a message, to convey something, yeah, and our tone is what's it's delivered on. Now, 45% of communication general is that delivery. I love that so huge yeah.
Speaker 1:So that leaves us just 5%, meaning 5% of the words are actually come out right, and so you think about how many times have you said. I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Please forgive me, but your tone, your delivery and your body language, your posture in that is going to make up for way more than the actual words that you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I'm sorry, with a deep breath and I roll, I'm sorry, check out the body language in that, the tone in that, which completely trump what you if you actually are sorry, but those collectively just aren't going to fly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're going to break down what good communication looks like, what bad communication looks like, how to work through a communication, conflict and confrontation because in communication you got two different senders and receivers, who you're dealing with a whole whole bunch of information there. So we're going to break that down, this episode, and give you some practical and tactical tools on how you can improve your communication and improve your connection with anyone you're communicating with. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Let's get into the story. So let's expose ourselves, Aaron, Since we've been in a relationship for several years, we had some conflict recently. But tell the story on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was. It was a gentle conflict because I think how we handled it is how two men with an equipped tool kit should handle communication. So Josh and I were obviously in the planning stages of getting season three set back up and we had a plan to meet. And Josh's married, he's got kids, he's got businesses that he runs as well, and so we had scheduled some time. I think it was a Wednesday morning and I remember what the reason was. Something came up, something came up for you.
Speaker 2:I remember.
Speaker 1:Something came up for me the night before and I was not committed to showing up in the morning for our scheduled time. So I sent a message. I sent the message, a text message. A text message. At 10.30 PM.
Speaker 2:Now it was early in the afternoon. That was it. It was 10.
Speaker 1:Sure yeah we can pull it back. Okay, we'll pull it back, but it was sometime in the evening. It was sometime in the evening, and so Josh receives the message, doesn't receive the message until next day because it's past his bedtime and he's asleep. I'm an early guy, I was in bed probably about nine, nine, 15 maybe, so I send the message. I assume sent means received. It's me that is taking, that is changing the plan, and very selfish on my side.
Speaker 1:And Josh wakes up in the morning. He sees the message, he says copy that. And then we have another meeting scheduled for either later in the week or something like that.
Speaker 1:First thing we do, though, and Josh initiates this and I love this about where we're at in our dynamic and our relationship, and this is how communication needs to happen. He says hey, I just want to clear the space, erin, because, first and foremost, sent doesn't mean received, and I was in bed and I'm so grateful that my wife woke me up, because otherwise I would have probably been a lot more frustrated in the morning, knowing that I had to leave the door and I moved around some coaching calls, and so I just want to have that conversation right now, and I said man, josh, thank you so much for A addressing that, first and foremost because this is a healthy boundary between two people. I didn't respect your time changing plans last minute and I totally would understand why you'd be upset and frustrated on the hope that you'll accept my forgiveness and know that I will do my very best in the future to make sure this never happens again.
Speaker 2:And so the point. I just want to make it clear to everyone who's listening that the idea of something coming up in life happens to all of us. So having to change something relatively last minute is not the deal. That was not a deal. Even though there were some things moved around, it wasn't at all about that. It was about the thought of you had said something, or thought you'd said something, and because I'd gone a bit early, my wife woke me up later in the evening and I actually got the message closer, I think, to maybe midnight or some point. When she woke me up our daughter was up. But yeah, if I'd gotten up as usual at 4 or something and had gotten ready to leave the house at 6, I'm going to come and meet you then got the message, I probably would have been in a different place. But the whole deal is not about life happening into the surroundings, but more along the lines of the communication that you said sent did not do an opportunity to be received, and then also we'll talk about this a little bit more. But communication it has a whole. You've got to have three parts of it and we'll go deeper here shortly.
Speaker 2:But what made our communication so profitable when we did get together. We got together virtually, but when we did get together is communication, is atmosphere, that's the biggest piece and timing delivery, and so we'll give more understanding for that here shortly. But the atmosphere for us to have that conversation immediately once we were together, in the way that we both spoke to one another in tone and apologies were offered even though I didn't feel like they're really needed it was more like a skill on the same page is what made that conversation work so well. And again, it's another picture of why this works so well. We're very healthy with one another, but, no, that was a great interaction. That could have been something frustrating, but it wasn't at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the recap on that one the atmosphere. And the atmosphere is the environment that you're in, and so a great ideal environment and atmosphere is in person, so that you can really pick up body language, you can understand tone. If needed, you can give a handshake, high five, hug. That's your partner, you can actually close the distance and create that human connection. And so meaningful conversations should not be done over text message, over phone call. For sure, if you're very best, if you can't get together in person, you need to have phone calls in Zoom, so you can at least pick up the body language. And then the second aspect we got atmospheres first. Then it's the delivery. Delivery means how he's saying, what he's saying is received in a way that's not gonna trigger response to me, or there's some type of closeness, trust between the two people. It's not just an attack, it's a matter of, like, healthy communication that is as close to resolving the problem as possible. Let's break that down.
Speaker 2:So the three things is atmosphere and really it's our job to do it in a place where it's a safe time to do it. We can all experience life and it'd be us or our partner or whoever we're attempting to communicate with, if they've had something happen in the day with the kids or at work and they're wound up like a $2 wash. It's probably not the time to bring something up. It's gonna be of meaningful, meaning or value Is to understand the right atmosphere to have the conversation. So that's number one. Timing is number two. So timing you know yourself better than you than anyone else and so, and especially for your relationship, it's great to know your partner and their timing.
Speaker 2:I'm a super morning person For a EM bro. I'm ready to have an in depth conversation. Let's go deep. My wife is not. If I wanna have something, if I have to bring something up with my wife, it is better for me to wait till around 11 AM, later. Now, in the same regard, you wanna bring something up with me at 9 PM, I probably don't have much left to give. Sure, yeah. So timing is understanding the timing of so the atmosphere, creating safety, knowing that timing is so important because our days have such an intricate part of how we experience life and show up. So if you want to show up your best or if you wanna be with somebody to show up their best, understanding, timing and then the deliveries. What we already talked about is the deliveries of three things body language, tone and words. And so collectively that becomes the equation to have great communication. What about that Atmospheric timing delivery? But delivery is body language, tone and verbiage.
Speaker 1:Love it so good, so good In this communication game that we're playing. So there's the sender and then there's the receiver and there's also like another layer to that, right, and you guys talk about this in your coaching where there is the literal and the inferential, and I think this is an important piece of touch on because it showcases opportunity to improve your communication, also understand what the people in your life are like, so you can see where communication breakdown exactly happens. So the way that I understand literal, a literal communicator is someone that says something with specificity and it's very literal and specific. So let's hang out next Friday. I'd love to go see a movie. There's this movie I wanna see. There's a 7PM show and they work really great for me. Does that work for you At this movie theater?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so it's specific. I'll pick you up beforehand, right, and so like it's very, very specific. That's literal. The inferential is vague, it's non-specific. Hey, let's go catch a movie sometime. Dot dot dot, right, exactly. So there's the dot dot dot at the end of this and you're like okay, cool, it's like asking me out on a date. Is this gonna be something where we're actually gonna go connect, like, is this at some point in the future, and so for the literal listener it creates a feeling of like, what's next? Yeah, right, so it almost creates a feeling of Uncertainness, or uncertainty To where you're trying to seek a solution, not realizing the person is an inferential speaker or it just it's vague.
Speaker 2:It's just how they communicate or I be, could work out this way to harassment. And so we've got inferential and literal speakers and Listeners, and this one yeah, anyone can be a combination of any of those, correct? So, using the same scenario, you just had to see an inferential speaker and saying something to a literal listener and says let's go hang out, yeah. And the literal listener says okay, because they heard it right. And then fast forward a few weeks. The Inferential speaker was like hey, I wanted to do something with you. We never did. Yeah, well, little listener said well, I said okay. So that's just a tiny scenario. And because this gets followed, the way it's done right versus a. A literal speaker says let's get together on Friday night at this movie, at this theater at this time, etc. A Literal listener would say, great, I'm in, puts it in the calendar, correct. So just, it's one of those. And yeah, as a. As a literal listeners is really funny.
Speaker 2:My wife and I had this experience frequently. I'm a literal listener, uh-huh, she's more of an inferential speaker. So she'll say hey, on the way home, grab, grab some milk in my match in my maturity, because I know how I listen, I've got to be aware of it. My response to her is great milk one gallon. Which? Which kind whole the vitamin D 2%, whatever, which company, which brand? And I actually typical. Will you send me a picture what I need to get? Yeah, like that's. That's how a literal listener generally processes. Now knows fluid, but for an inferential speaker she's got to be aware of how I'm hearing. Yeah, so when she says if she has an expectation of hey, get milk, it's would be wise of her to say hey, get milk one gallon Borden vitamin D Color's red.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what? What I think it was. It was a good tool. This was a great aha moment when, when I went through your flagship course, it's called same team NYU, nyu. So me, you, us. But I am also a literal listener at the time a state in Rachel and she is an inferential speaker, and so there'd be expressions of, like I'm cold or I'm hungry or it's drafty, inherent. So I think I'm like action based, I'm just going to go do something and it just is like it's almost like automatic behavior I'm going to go turn on the heat or I'm going to grab a blanket, or I'm going to do something to solve the immediate. So that's the awareness around where I can actually pause and ask the question like okay, are you expressing or are you asking? And then in just in that awareness, it allowed us to be a great much better communication.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that example because that's Britt and I teach that example all frequently because we sat in this moment of she's an inferential speaker. I'm a literal listener. So, laying in bed, if Britt says I'm cold, the literal listener in me says I'm sorry, Like literally I'm sorry. But I didn't hear will you get me a blanket? Will you get make me a cup of tea? Will you turn up the heat? I didn't hear that. I heard I'm cold and I go out of. Like I love my wife.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry that may come off as cold to people or maybe I don't care enough. It has nothing to do with my thought processing. Versus, if my wife had said, hey, I'm thirsty and I'll, my response would be I'm sorry Again, not out of. I adore my wife. I hope everyone gets that. Yeah. But if she says, hey, I'm thirsty and I'd like a glass of water, I would get up and go get her a glass of water. Check the third request I'd like a glass of water with, you know, half cup of ice. Oh, I'm in, baby. I got that. Yeah, but it's not a conscious, it's not a conscious decision. That's that it'll let a, a inferential speaker would say something and a literal listener, just choose not to, not to love on them. Well, Sure, but it happens all around us. You guys, as you listen to this up, sure he had things come up in your mind Like I said something, or so many I said something to me, for whatever reason. We had conflict around it. I thought we were good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's the biggest point that we can touch on inside this, this conversation we're having today, is that there are two parts of communication. There is the scent and then there is the receiving and part of that sending and receiving. Basically, there's a breakdown or perfect matchup of literal and inferential listener and speaker, and then the dynamic of whether or not the body language, the delivery, the atmosphere, the timing all of that is playing together in a perfect setting. So if you want to be a better communicator, you got to recognize all of these dynamics that are happening and take responsibility for your side of communication which is 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so and I love you that you said that so understanding these points and these tools are going to be the differentiator and you can go back and listen to some previous podcasts where we really talk deep about this. But understanding that this is how communication flows for all of us will help you respond to your partner, to your marketplace, to circumstances, versus reacting. We touch on this as a key component of masculinity as a whole, and you've got to understand what communication is so that you don't end up being that 67.5% statistic down the road. It all comes down to understanding the atmosphere, the timing and your delivery. What all that means is it's not that complicated, but if you have an understanding of it, you'll be aware of it and when the modes show up, you won't self-inflict. You know a bullet shot through the thigh, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1:It's good or full auto out in the public. So a couple of tools that we want to touch on about this. So there's two communication sentences that I have integrated into my toolkit. I love them because they allow me to not only get clarity but also to slow down. I can be a very fast communicator, and in my fast communication I recognize that not everything is received and it creates a distance or dissonance between those that I'm communicating with, and so, especially in coaching calls, where I'm with a coaching client and I'm sharing something or giving them a tool or an application or giving them feedback, a tool that I ask is what have you heard me say? What did you hear me say? And so that allows me to pause.
Speaker 1:First and foremost is the sending being received, and so what did you hear me say is a good tool? And then, on the other side of that, I can sometimes listen, but I'm also sometimes thinking about things I want to say, and so I miss the gap, and so a good way to make sure that I'm really being present is to tee up a question of here's what I hear you saying, and then to repeat back, and so both of these are pause points in a communication. So one, josh, as I'm talking to you, what do you hear me saying? And so I'm checking okay, cool, we're on the same page, same page, awesome. And then, as I'm hearing Josh speaking, piniket, what I heard you say is this and now I'm gonna give it back to my own voice language it allows us to recalibrate during the communication opportunity. That's pivotal that's huge.
Speaker 2:If couples would communicate like that, good night. That percentage that we just mentioned at 67.5, we'd probably drop down with the teens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just generally speaking. I think the reason well, there's probably a lot of reasons, the reasons why we bypass that is that we are so concerned with getting our point across right, we want to be heard, we want to make sure that the other person really understands the weight of the emotion behind it, and so it becomes a bulldozing session rather than a communication session, which is not a communication. Yeah, yeah, that breaks down. Okay, so we got those two tools. And when you guys talk about this with in your relationship coaching about how to use text messages effectively, yes, we talk on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Text message has become, I would say, a primary type of communication, or at least it's viewed that way, that we communicate not just general things in life but emotions. People like to text. Fight with each other over messaging Text fight.
Speaker 2:That's the worst Mercy, and it's because in the moment something frustrates you, we can whip out our phones and before you know it, you've written, we've all had the book show up. It's just, I'm gonna get it out. Really, it's just, it's emotional vomiting. Yeah, it's a monologue, it's not a dialogue, absolutely and typically. It's just, it's an emotional flood that gets put down on paper per se and never does anyone go back and think about it and edit it. We just send and we all know what that grenade looks like, and before you know it, and we've all done it, and so there's the version of literally all done it. That's the point. So the big key about text messaging is in text, the tone is left up to the receiver, and so there's no body language, no body language, no body language, and so it's the full interpretation is left up to the person getting the message. Now that's a rule left to play, especially if you're trying to have a valuable conversation. So what we teach is that text message and this is please write this down, take it to heart, try it for 30 days.
Speaker 2:Text messages for two things Grocery lists and love letters. I love that. What does that mean? Doesn't have to be grocery lists, literally, so like anything happening with the kids, schedule wise. An actual grocery list. Hey, I need something To do it. You're passing by when you pick up my laundry, whatever you grab food on the way home. Grocery lists, lists and then love letters. Hey, I was thinking about you. I am thinking about you. I just want you to know how you left this morning. You smell so good, good Lord, you are so fine. I came to see you later. Some sort of love message. Outside of that, texts were nothing else. Now, if a moment happens where you get frustrated, you feel like I've got to hash this out.
Speaker 2:Open up your notes page. Text inside your notes page that doesn't mean text it copy and send it. No, put it inside your notes, write it down and get it out. Get it out, come back to it later in the day tomorrow if you're able to reread your thoughts. I promise you about 70% of what you had to get out won't matter to you anymore, so you will have not put a bullet through your thigh or throw a grenade into your bedroom. Doesn't mean what you had to say is not valid. Doesn't mean a conversation doesn't need to be had, because if it means something to you it does.
Speaker 2:But then take that note page after you've edited out that 70% or so that doesn't matter anymore and to have that conversation face to face when remember these things, the atmosphere is right, the atmosphere is right, it's the right time of day. Don't do it with other kids when, soon as you come home, the kids have been nuts, your wife is like listen, I just need a break. You understand the right timing. So atmosphere is right, timing is right and your delivery. Make sure it's in a tone that you can have a true dialogue with. It's not in your face, bitch, you did this. No, it's listen, we're having a conversation. I just want to share this with you. This came across wrong. I just want you to know that. This hurt me. However, it is for you. Text messages are for two things Grocery lists, love letters. Utilize that note page and have the dialogue, not monologue like you mentioned. It's strong. Have the dialogue in person.
Speaker 1:So good, so good. Man, I can think about so many times in previous relationships with romantic partners, business partners, friends, where it's like you're just in the heat of the moment and it just comes out as like a one-way bulldozing monologue and it breaks down all opportunity to create closeness and connection. There's going to be conflict in every relationship. But utilizing these tools where you're not A attacking through text message, you're not doing it the wrong time. You're doing it in an environment. Driving is the one of the areas.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I can tell you that another terrible place on top of text message, I probably put it at the top of the list in the worst environments to have a conversation, because you can't actually have a face-to-face conversation. It's one person driving, focusing on driving, and the other person really having a full-on, like machine gun attack because they're in an isolated position. So that's an environment I'd say don't have dialogue, meaningful dialogue, especially if there's confrontation around it. But, man, I love this, I love those three tools is the environment timing, which I think for us guys that are growing in their emotional maturity, like that's one thing, it's okay. When is the right time for this? Probably a full 24 hours after, like the heated moment like take all the time to compress. And then the tone, and the tone is the area that we're going to touch on a lot, because the tone is, is enhanced, reinforced, is really is held up based on your needs, what you know about yourself, your emotional equanimity, your emotional leadership and your ability to really process your own feelings.
Speaker 2:Before going into the dynamic, yeah, yeah, I love what you said and I think this will hit hard in most guys than we intend to, but I still want to say it is that you're talking about give some time before you go and have that conversation. But men, have the conversation. Yeah, don't avoid it. We are so good in general of suppressing and repressing things that matter to us, thinking like, oh, I'm just being, I'm just being a daisy if I had this conversation, or because you know, someone's so hurt my feelings, whether it's your spouse, your partner, whoever it is. No, you need to have the conversation If you don't. If you don't, it will come back to bite you at some point. You got to pay the piper at some point, so have the conversation. So I love that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the biggest point that we want to land the plan on this is that you are 100% responsible for your communication. Yeah, like it's not your partner's job to listen better, to be a better listener that's not it, and we've heard that before is it is not your partner's job to be a better communicator. It is your job to be a better communicator and listener. You are responsible for not only the sending but also the receiving. You think about that.
Speaker 1:If you know that you're fully responsible for all of the communication, you're going to pay attention to the statistics. One. You're going to make sure that your environment is an environment that allows for healthy communication. You're going to make sure your tone, your delivery and your time you're all in a way that's going to bring out the very best, and your goal to the communication should be a primary intention of closeness. Yes, that really should be. Yes, connection, connection, not, not, I'm going to make you pay. Yeah, that's a good, such a good piece there is. The purpose of communication is to create closeness and connection, not more conflict. Yeah, love that. Anything that we forgot to go over on this episode.
Speaker 2:Well, there's some. We will cover quite a bit more in the future. This is an overview of what communication is. And, guys, if it's, if 67 and a half percent of marriages are failing because of communication, then it's not just marriages, it's business relationships. I would not wish I mean, there's just so many things in life that could happen. I wouldn't wish retro parenting on anybody. It is God, awful and painful. So get a hold of these tools and realize that there's a ripple effect in every area of your life. I use, we use the marriage statistic, but it shows up in every area. How you do anything is how you do everything. That's exactly right. So be aware of it. We'll talk more in depth about it later, but just just get a good sense of what communication is and what parts of it you can own.
Speaker 1:Love that If you are improving your communication, you know someone that needs to improve in their communication. This would be a really good episode to share with them, to tag them in, to just be able to spend some time having a conversation on you and your partner, your spouse, business partner. Communication is the lifeblood of better connection. So if this episode served you in any way, do us a big favor. Leave us a review, share it with a friend, tag us on social media as you work through these tools and send us a DM. Let us know what you'd like to see in future episodes with the Highlight man conversation. Love it Strong.
Speaker 2:Boom.