The High Value Man Conversation

How To DEFINITELY Stop Ruining Your Relationships With Women

Erin Alejandrino & Josh Lashua Season 3 Episode 26

Unlock the secrets to nurturing emotionally resilient relationships on the High Value Man Conversation Podcast. Explore the balance between emotion and logic and the essential role of effective emotional dependency in fostering intimacy and trust with your partner. Our engaging discussion promises to equip you with practical strategies to identify and dismantle the common saboteurs that threaten your romantic connections.

Dive into the concept of primal panic and its profound ties to attachment theory, as we unpack how our deep-seated fears and insecurities influence our interactions. We delve into various attachment styles—anxious, avoidant, and secure—and offer insights on recognizing and healing "raw spots" that might lead to self-sabotage. By sharing personal stories, we illustrate the impact of past experiences on current dynamics and highlight the destructive nature of "demon dialogues" like the "find the bad guy" dynamic, which can foster blame and hinder growth.

We underscore the power of community and support in sustaining healthy relationships, drawing inspiration from experts like Dr. Sue Johnson and her "same team philosophy." Learn how to foster unity against external challenges and the value of surrounding yourself with a supportive network. This episode is a call to action for actively participating in your own growth journey and building deeper, more meaningful connections with those around you. Join us and become part of a dedicated community aimed at helping men grow across various life areas, such as faith, fitness, family, and finance.

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Speaker 1:

All parents have really well intent in how we raise our kids. I have a very strong mother, and the only reason I am the way that I am is because her and I butt heads. We have very similar personalities. My brother, on the other hand, is more of an introvert and I think about his youth that any time we went to dinner and something was requested of my brother, my mother always spoke for him and that was just something comfortable for her to do and I don't think she had any intent to teach my brother not to have a voice. They said he's very sharp, I would even say he's brilliant, but I don't hear my brother's voice very often.

Speaker 2:

Safety, security you've heard us say this a thousand times is your woman's number one need. The moment that gets inserted into the relationship because someone has their feelings hurt, it starts to crumble the foundations you guys are building on.

Speaker 1:

Most men want to think that they're very logical thinking. Well, you're a liar, because half your brain's emotion. You have to be able to steward that emotion to allow your logic to show up. So the first one is to turn towards safe physical connection, safe eye to eye, intimate connection. Regardless of how we feel, we're going to talk this through until we come to an agreement.

Speaker 2:

This is the High Value man Conversation Podcast, a show dedicated to the mission of building high value men. One great man means a great family, a great neighborhood, a better city, community state and the world. The question is if not you, then who? Episode 26. Episode 26. Cool, welcome back to the High Value man Conversation. This is episode 26, and this is a continuation of the conversation we had last week, which is effective emotional dependency. And the reason why you want to have effective emotional dependency is it gives you the courage, the boldness, the confidence, the peace at home that you know that your person has your back. It's really why we get into relationship and marriage. It just provides so much joy at the end of the day when you're on the same team with your person.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we are intricately wired, aaron, for community, so community with other men, to have great people in our life that are not just for us but they'll help us correct when we need those moments. And then, specifically, in romantic relationship and marriage. We are designed to be in a relationship or a marriage that we can count on and right where we're not hopping from relationship to relationship, from marriage to marriage to marriage, from business to business to business because of how we feel.

Speaker 2:

So good.

Speaker 1:

So we've, we've, we've got a dependency on people, but we have to realize that it's got to be an effective dependency, which leads us into episode 26.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and the three saboteurs of effective emotional dependency of what we're going to be talking about today. So there are three things that are showing up in your relationship. If you don't feel like you've got a healthy connection at home, or any of your relationships really, these three saboteurs are going to break down to you. And then we're going to give you three very basic, tactical, practical how-tos to deepen your relationship with your person.

Speaker 1:

I love it cool, kick us off, let's dive in. So the first one, aaron, that can show up inside of us is called a primal panic. Primal panic, which means it's innate and it's natural, and just because it can happen doesn't mean it has to take the wheel of the life that we're attempting to drive. So what a primal panic is? Essentially, it's a built-in alarm system inside of us that creates the feeling of fear and then everything that can come along with that. So this leans really hard on attachment theory, which we've talked about in the past Of, of course, you can go back to our previous podcast. We hit attachment theory, a theory, pretty straight on and defined it really well. But this whole thought process leans on attachment theory that our, our loved one's, relationship that we're, that we're designed to have, is designed to alleviate us from all of this. Yes, it's designed to alleviate us from all of this. And so when our person, our romantic partner, our spouse, is emotionally unavailable, or physically.

Speaker 1:

Or physically unavailable, then we are forced to face our feelings, our circumstances, our situations on our own, and what this produces in us is a feeling of coldness in ourself, and what we project it produces the feeling of aloneness, which no one's designed to feel, helplessness, anger, sadness, hurt, which all manifest themselves in types of fears. So essentially, it produces fear. And then the crazy thing about fear is that fear is fabricated. If a fear were literal, it's something that's already happened. And then the crazy thing about fear is that fear is fabricated, right? If a fear were literal, it's something that's already happened. Right? The fears that we have in life are things that have not yet happened. Yet we've created a scenario in our brains and we act as if that's already happened, even though it hasn't. So it's just the power that we give fear.

Speaker 2:

And it all comes from a primal panic and we'll quickly just glance over this. But when it comes to attachment theory, there are three types. There's a fourth type, but we'll just discuss the three because there's a good metaphor behind them. But three types of attachments that show up inside of your relationship. There is the wave this is a anxious attachment. It's constantly moving. You can't feel comfortable in your own skin. There's the island this is a anxious attachment. It's constantly moving. You can't feel comfortable in your own skin. There's the island this is the avoidant attachment, where you're distancing, you're isolating. And then there is the secure. That's the anchor. So the anchor, the wave and the island. And you can go a lot deeper, obviously, and check out our previous episode where we dove into this topic. But those attachment theories show up inside of your dynamic, with your person, so being able to be conscious and aware of your own attachment theory, but also your partners, so that you can support them, love them when you have physical or emotional distance?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure, cause we talk about this all the time. It's not when it's. I'm sorry it's not if it's when life happens. So there will always be circumstances that come from the marketplace, that'll come from spheres that you run in, will come in you know the relationship with your children and the schools they go to and the PTAs and all the things it's. How are you being dictated? Are you the one that's choosing how you're showing up, right? Or is your emotion, your fear, that primal Hijacking?

Speaker 1:

you, is your emotion, your fear that primal Hijacking you, completely hijacking you, yeah, and that's a great way to. That's a self-inflicted plane, right? Self-inflicted because it's a saboteur to your own relationship, love that Love that so good.

Speaker 2:

Okay, number two pre-existing raw spots.

Speaker 1:

I love this. We're going to hover on this a little bit, yeah, Because we've all got them. Pre-existing raw spot is simply put it's a hypersensitivity to a past experience. A pre-existing raw spot is a hypersensitivity to a pre-existing I'm sorry to a past experience.

Speaker 2:

So something happened in the past upbringing, previous relationship. That pattern of behavior created reaction and then you hold on to that reaction. You bring that old garbage into your new relationship and we got some great examples for it, because every single one of us has been through this before. Or either our mom or dad did something and it taught us taught us a lesson that that's how our partner also likes that thing to be done, and or a previous relationship that was toxic or disconnected. You guys weren't the right fit for each other. You practice a behavior because that's what they wanted or needed, and then you bring that same stuff and new garbage and your partner's like what? Why are you doing it like that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it's true. And so we we can all think of times in our youth where we experienced something like this. I have a very specific story that I experienced with Brittany the first week that we were together, and this was a preexisting raw spot that she had. So we're in my car we lived in, uh, uh, we're moving to Houston at this point in our life but she had these little sandals on and we're in my car going on a long drive, and she takes her sandals off and goes to put her feet up on my dashboard, but immediately, the moment her skin touches the dashboard, she pulls them back down, and I happened to notice how quickly it had happened. So I'm like, hey, like what happened? You're putting your foot up, Was the dashboard hot or something? And she goes on to explain to me that the previous guy that she had dated had this big diesel truck that he poured a lot of his efforts and money into, and so the truck was the baby, and she had an experience with him where she put her feet on his dashboard and he literally ripped her a new one. And so since then she has this hypersensitivity to that action.

Speaker 1:

Fast forward a couple of years or she's in a relationship with me, puts her foot on my dashboard and immediately takes them down, like in fear that I'm going to go off on her. And so in that moment I actually I paused the moment I said just just so that you know I'm not a foot person, but I think you have the cutest feet. And just so that you know I'm not a foot person, but I think you have the cutest feet and I love the idea of you having your feet on my dashboard. So what you're going to do right now is you're going to put your feet back up there and you better leave some toe marks on my windshield so that I can be thoughtful of you when you're not in the car. So I want to see those.

Speaker 1:

So just me allowing to show up. And that comes back to as partners. We are capable and designed to show up in those moments and help to heal those raw spots?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so good. I think about some of the guys that we coach. But what happens to them and this is leading into the third one, but where they will freeze or they'll fight in the relationship because that's how they were trained to interact and engage with the parents growing up? They were trained to interact and engage with the parents growing up and especially the guys were raised with a strong woman and a passive father figure If mother was driving the results in the house, controlling, hovering, et cetera. That same pattern of behavior shows up where they end up being the child in the relationship rather than being the man that's leading. So those raw spots are all about your personal experience and recognizing the new relationship that you're in.

Speaker 1:

You have to be willing to face some of the old bad programming, change it, be conscious of it and really allow your partner to show up for you, for sure, and I think, even as a parent, I don't think any of us as parents I truly believe, aaron, that all parents have really well intent in how we raise our kids.

Speaker 1:

But, even as we're talking and this is not to expose my little brother, because he is a good human, but it makes me think of his upbringing. I have a very strong mother, and the only reason I am the way that I am is because her and I butt heads. We have very similar personalities. My brother, on the other hand, is more of an introvert, and I think about his youth. At any time we went to dinner, any time or any place, and something was requested of my brother, my mother always spoke for him and that was just something comfortable for her to do, and I don't think she had any intent to to teach my brother not to have a voice.

Speaker 1:

Like I said, he's very sharp, he is, I would even say he's brilliant, um, but I don't hear my brother's voice very often now that he's in his thirties. We know what he's capable of, but it's very. It's a very rare occasion that we truly get to experience the depth of who he is, because he was essentially conditioned at an early age that somebody else would speak for him. So that can become a raw spot as well and, just as a parent, to be very conscientious about how we are showing up for our children so that we don't create raw spots for them in the future, as they grow up.

Speaker 2:

That's good, that's so good, powerful.

Speaker 1:

Third one, third one this one is prevalent Demon dialogues, demon dialogues um. Third one, third one this one is prevalent demon dialogues, demon dialogues. There are three types of demon dialogues and, essentially, just to give you the overview of what a demon dialogue is, erin is a demon dialogue, is the internal dialogue. So it's within us, it's head trash, it's conversation that's happening in our heads. It's probably a monologue, but it's going on inside of our own brains that create conflict in our relationship, and so what this comes down to is there's three ways that this can show up in our relationship. These are all types of demon dialogues. The first one find the bad guy, find the bad guy. So in a scenario where we end up in the conflict of find the bad guy, it's a cause and effect type pain.

Speaker 2:

I feel this way because you did that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you did this and because type pain I feel this way because you did that, yeah, you did this and and and because of that I'm now experiencing this pain, or because of that we are in the scenario. Yeah, you are the reason, you are the cause, you are the problem.

Speaker 1:

It's your fault, find the bad guy. The downside of that is, anytime we choose and most of the time these are going to be unconscious choices. So really, this is to bring awareness to how we show up in a relationship. But anytime we do this, we completely rip, rip away our own ownership. So if you're the bad guy, then there's nothing I can do to change our scenario. There's nothing I can do to get myself out of this pit. We're here because of you.

Speaker 2:

It's good, it's not helpful. No, it's not helpful, but I know that, uh, our listeners can probably resonate with that, because if you find the bad guy in a relationship, you get into conflict and a fight, you notice what instantly happens as soon as you point the finger at somebody else. They get defensive, closed off and shut down, and then they find things to be wrong with you and it just turns into this game, almost like a dance, where you just point the finger back and forth and not really creating any progress.

Speaker 1:

That's true, Because in relationship, if you both, if neither, if if one person doesn't win, then the entire relationship doesn't win. So as long as you're pointing the finger. There's two things that happen with this one there's no ownership taken, which we already talked about. But what's even more powerful is there's no responsibility taken.

Speaker 2:

Good.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to be in this pit as long as you keep doing these things right, I there's nothing I can do to help it. We're here because of you and it's it's very powerful. At the same time, it's it's very captivating. You become handicapped in those scenarios, and so these show up more often than we're probably willing to say. Sure, a hundred percent. So if you're pointing the finger, realize that there's something that you can do within yourself to change that scenario. Going way, way back to one of my favorite equations X plus Y equals Z. As men, we own the Y. So regardless of how our X is showing up, if we change anything in the way that we're showing up, our outcome the.

Speaker 1:

Z changes for the positive.

Speaker 2:

So good Love that. All right. Stepping into the second part of the demon dialogues Protest polka.

Speaker 1:

Don't hear that word very often Polka. Down here in the South we don't really polka. I feel like that's a Midwest thing.

Speaker 2:

I don't even know that I could identify what polka looks like. I think that I can hear a little bit of like the polka sound. That's for sure, that's an accordion. That's what it is, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the accordion. So the protest, protest, polka is essentially a dance, a negative dance, back and forth. So that's where the music comes in, if you want to think polka or whatever genre of music you want to think of, just think of. It's a dance, it's a negative dance. So in a protest polka there is a bid that's made and typically some sort of withholding that's made.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so what breakdown, what a bid is, just for the listeners Cause I know that's something that you guys use often in the same team. We talk about a lot, but that's a key part of getting your needs met is understanding what a bid is and being able to perceive your partner's bids.

Speaker 1:

A bid can either be a nonverbal or verbal projection of something that you want or desire. If I'm walking down the street with my girl and I hold my hand out, that is a bid for her to reach out and take my hand. In our relationship. My two love languages, Aaron, are quality time and touch, so at nighttime, when it's our no leftovers last 30 minutes, I may make a bid towards my wife and I'll roll over to cuddle her, expecting her to roll over and let me cuddle her.

Speaker 1:

So a bid is made and then some sort of response can be made as well, but I protest.

Speaker 1:

Polka is when a bid is made and then there's withholding I'm not going to give you what you're asking for and it creates this negative dance of conflict where pain, pain arrives where we see this most often, cause most people don't call conflict conflict, they call conflict fights. It's like here's something that I have a feeling, so I'm gonna go put my gloves on, I'll be right back, you get your gloves and we'll see how this turns out for us. So how this typically protest poker typically shows up is one person is being critical and aggressive and the other person is being defensive and distant. Right, so there's something that I want, there's something I need to talk about, there's something that we need to work through. I've got this issue, I've got this problem, whatever it may be, and this person is either is either being defensive, as in I need to protect how I feel you don't understand, you don't hear me or they're they're, they're fleeing, as in. I don't want to talk about it, I shut down.

Speaker 2:

I started all avoiding. That's where that attachment theory you'll see, especially in the conflict. Are you avoiding or are you getting?

Speaker 1:

overly anxious.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so that's when dialogue can't happen because you have one person doing lots of talking and somebody else who's completely silent, or vice versa, or this person does a lot of the talking, is making the bids, is being more aggressive, and then this person in the defensive mode returns fire. So now we're in a shootout and typically, volume goes up. Whoever can be the loudest, whoever can reach back in their scorecard and pull out the most painful thing from the past, and we start dropping bombs and grenades and shooting, and so it's a dance that gets very aggressive and very negative very quickly. So be aware of this happening, and what's sad about this, aaron, is research tells us that that couples that that fight this way have an 80% chance of divorce in their first four years of marriage.

Speaker 2:

Terrifying.

Speaker 1:

It is terrifying.

Speaker 2:

Cause. This is. This is the 50, 50 mentality. Hey, I'm going to pull 50% of the weight and I expect you to also pull 50, 50% of the weight, but I know that you guys go deep on this, that you have to go a hundred percent all in on both sides, and it's typically going to be one person leading that a hundred percent, rather than waiting for that reciprocation of the 50.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a very childish way of thinking of listen, you can play with my toys If you let me play with your toys. And that's really what it comes down to is a bid is made and, just like you said, it's a 50%. You know what I'll move in this direction. When you go first, I'll give up this thing. When you give up this thing, I'll start doing this thing.

Speaker 1:

When you start doing this thing, and again nobody decides to move and you stay in this same isolated place where you're just taking shots at one another. And then, as it goes on, it gets more aggressive, more intense, more painful, to the point where, like you know, I love you, or maybe I used to love you, but I don't like you anymore. And that's when you go and you sleep in separate bedrooms and you don't talk anymore. Uh, women will go to their friends or mother to have discussions. Men will either turn to sports, alcohol, vices, um, disconnect, however they can, and it completely spirals out of control. So it's it's no wonder that so many people can end up separated in just a couple years of operating this way. Be aware of your protest, poca.

Speaker 1:

So good Third one Third one is a portion. We've already mentioned these in the first two, but this is just a natural emotional response to difficult, emotionally difficult scenarios. That's your three responses. We've all heard these freeze, flee or fight. Freeze, flee or fight. There's a, there's a four, there's a four letter option that Aaron offers.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we won't mention it because I'm working on my swearing, but it, this is the, I'm dropping a grenade in this and F?

Speaker 1:

it I'm out yes for sure, which is, which is part of the fight and flee. So it's a mixture of the combinations. But again, in the midst of these demon dialogues, you do have a choice of how you show up. And if you choose to show up negatively, it's going to be one of these three. You're going to completely freeze, withhold, stonewall. You could flee. I'm out of here. I'm over this. We're not talking about it. I don't feel like it. Whatever it may be, I'm out. And that's really just you protecting those feelings and not expressing them, sure or less not expressing them in a healthy way. But most people just decide to fight yeah, and they'll choose one of the top two that we just talked about. They'll typically choose. Choose to either find the bad guy we're in this scenario because of you or protest, polka right, aggressive, critical, and either withhold or become defensive. So good.

Speaker 2:

So good, all right. So recap on this your demon dialogues. This is the third piece of your saboteurs. The reason why we're bringing this up is that if you are not aware of these saboteurs, the, uh, the, the. The reason why we're bringing this up is that if you are not aware of these saboteurs in your relationship, you have no real chance of a successful, happy, healthy, loving, positive emotional connection. You know, be able to create that dependency.

Speaker 1:

You'll hide it in public, but you'll hate going home.

Speaker 2:

Good good, good, good. What are some ways that we can counteract these?

Speaker 1:

three steps. I love it. So you have to realize that we talked about earlier that there is a consequence to being a relationship and the consequence of being in any relationship is you have some responsibility, there's a responsibility for you, so we're responsible for how we show up. Nobody can make you or anyone feel any certain way.

Speaker 1:

Aaron, you can't make me feel anything. You can do something that leads me down the path, but I'm going to choose to allow myself to feel that way. So the first way that we have is our, our ability to turn towards. We have to choose to turn towards our partner, turn towards the scenario. Not to go, put on our gloves and come back to fight, not to turn and run or to shut down. Right, we have to turn towards our partner. So what that means is making, first of all, having safe physical connection, which can typically be a hug, can be holding hands.

Speaker 1:

There's something that happens in our limbic system. When I take the hand of my wife right, my veins dilate, increases blood flow and oxygen. My respiratory system chills out, which means I breathe slower. My body becomes relaxed. Over time, there's oxytocin and dopamine that release. There's all these positive things to help you think logically. And so when we're in an emotional state, our logic system shuts down. Emotion takes over. But if you're willing to turn towards and have a physical connection, along with an eye to eye connection that's good, which is intimate then you'll allow your limbic system to relax, and that's the only time your logic can step in.

Speaker 1:

And most men want to think that they're very logical thinking. Well, you're a liar, because half your brain's emotion. You have to be able to steward that emotion to allow your logic to show up. So the first one is to turn towards their physical safe by creating a safe atmosphere. Regardless of how we feel, we're going to talk this through at this level of volume, at this level of tone, till we come to an agreed conclusion. That's a great atmosphere. And then using kind words. So in this room, in the high value man room, we do not believe in nice guys. Nice guys are conditioned to be nice. They are conservative for a reason. A kind man is a man that has the ability for violence but chooses to be nice.

Speaker 1:

They are conservative for a reason A kind man is a man that has the ability for violence but chooses to be kind. That is an effective choice.

Speaker 2:

And nice guys, it's all a facade. It ends up as Dr Glover puts it they'll have their victim pukes where, because of their repressed feelings for so long, they have one of these saboteurs pop up and they end up vomiting, losing their temper and just losing it in a moment and having zero emotional regulation or control.

Speaker 1:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1:

So the first one is be able to turn towards and turn towards. Well, the second one is just the same team philosophy. So Brittany and I created this in our living room almost a decade ago, and same team literally means no matter what happens outside of our relationship, nothing is going to divide this. We are the same body, we are the same mind, not that we don't have a polarity parts, but we are a single entity. So same team philosophy just means that when life happens, that we will not leave each other, we will be trustworthy, we will be a safe place, a haven of peace, and we're going to choose to walk through and talk through every scenario, regardless of how difficult it feels. It's good, it's good and then. So that's the second one. Same team philosophies Number two. Number three is where a lot of couples miss it. It goes back to.

Speaker 1:

There's quite a bit of of the information that we put on this podcast. That's directly taken from Hold Me Tight by Dr Sue Johnson. It was one of the most impactful relationship books that I read very early on in my marriage, and so the title of the book is Hold Me Tight, which points directly to the commitment of marriage, hold Me Tight and marriage in and of itself is a verbal commitment that, no matter what, aaron, I am not going to leave you. So when the worst of you is exposed, when we walk through the hardest difficulties in life financial difficulties, relational difficulties, family, all of these things I'm not going anywhere. It comes back to this whole till death. Do we part? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

Eliminating the D word from your relationship.

Speaker 1:

Take it out of your vocabulary. Never, ever use it, I don't care how, from your relationship. Take it out of your vocabulary. Never, ever use it, I don't care how much it hurts. Take it out. So that's the quickest way to sweep the rug out from underneath your partner Is to use the word divorce Especially safety, security You've heard us say this a thousand times Is your woman's number one need.

Speaker 2:

The moment that gets inserted into the relationship because someone has their feelings hurt, it starts to crumble the foundations you guys are building on.

Speaker 1:

Yep, and much like toothpaste once it's on the table it can never be taken off. So just don't use it, stop it. Toothpaste can't come off the table. Sorry, Once toothpaste comes out of the toothpaste bottle, it can't go back in, right? So just like the word divorce once it's been used as a manipulation tool, because that's all that it is to get what you want.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's all the table. It's that polka dance. You hurt my feelings. I'm going to bring it up a level. I'm going to really hurt your feelings.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, yep, so that's the last. One is to choose to hold me tight. So the three ways that we can show up in our relationship by our feelings is turning towards number one, a same team philosophy. Number two and then number three is the hold me tight, I'm not going anywhere.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, as a bonus, one like a fourth get in coaching, counseling, therapy, support groups. Surround yourself with other like-minded people, get yourself in the rooms where the level of relationship is a 10 out of 10, so that you can bring that home, because nobody does this alone. Nobody does this alone.

Speaker 1:

Well, we said it before every major, successful brand, market and company on the planet has a council, a cabinet of great decision makers around them, and the CEO doesn't sign a single thing unless he's heard from the right people. If you think you can get through your relationship without that, then you're just doing what your father did.

Speaker 2:

Ooh ouch, that's a zinger On that note. Perfect segue. Guys, don't do this alone. We're here to support you 110% on your journey. We've created a free community of the High Value man supporting you with topics just like this conversation points so you can level up and lead in your faith, your fitness, your family and your finance and be the High Value man in every domain. Join us in the conversation and if this episode served you maybe stung a little bit because the saboteurs are showing up in your dynamic do us a big favor, get inside the group, first and foremost. Second piece is leave us a comment. Five star review. Share this with a friend. Create some accountability, positivity. Reach out to josh and me. We'd love to connect with you along your journey. Indeed, much love, many blessings. Talk to you guys soon, boom, boom.

Speaker 1:

Get off the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Get back to the fucking mental lab.